A Chi Kung Interview With Gary J. Clyman

Plublished In Inside Kung Fu Magazine - April 1987

by Dennis Franke R.N.

This interview was printed in part in the April 87' Issue of Inside Kung Fu magazine. The response to this article gave me a national and international reputation and visibility. Since this publishing, clients and students of all levels have come to study with me from all over the country for my special 2-Day Private Instruction Format. This is that article in its entirety.

Gary J. Clyman is director of the Chicago Wholistic Health Center, a unique clinic where the ancient arts of Taoist self-cultivation still live - 20th century style. Clyman's practice is one of Bio-Mechanics, Spinal Touch Treatment, Orthomolecular Nutrition, Muscle Response Testing, and PERSONAL POWER TRAININGx. But behind this modern terminology, and the doors of his downtown loop office, hides the Chinese arts of Tai Chi boxing, Tao Yin corrective exercise, An Mo massage, Wai Tan alchemy, and Chi Kung meditation - practices of Chinese Taoism shrouded in secrecy and rarely practiced today as a unified self-healing system. In each of these arts Gary J. Clyman is an expert, a modern Master.

Ever since the age of twenty he has been studying, cultivating, refining, and teaching the arts of Yang Sheng - Taoist practices for the "nourishment of life and the strengthening of it against disease." A life-long Chicago resident, he is a senior member in the city's martial arts, macrobiotic, and wholistic health circles. He has appeared on numerous T.V. and radio shows; twelve of the latter with his friend and mentor Dr. Robert Mendelsohn M.D. (deceased April 1988). And in an ever-continuing effort to spread the Illinois Wholistic Health Network: a forum of health care practitioners dedicated to the education and promotion of wholistic healing in the greater Chicago metropolitan area.

If there's still meaning in the epithet, "a self-made man" then Gary Clyman embodies that ideal. All of Clyman's training as a wholistic health practitioner was secured by direct, one-on-one apprenticeship and thousands of hours of intense, disciplined practice. The adventure began in 1974.

After a year and a half of studying the Korean fighting art of taekwondo, with Grandmaster Han Cha Kyo, and enlightened by the new Feng and English translation of the Tao Teh Ching, he went in search of a martial art that could offer more than just fighting know-how. He wanted to develop vitality, assertiveness, self-esteem, and character. Han thought him "so strange for an American to want to be Philosopher"? Eventually, Clyman discovered Temple Style Tai Chi Ch'uan and the city's premier Tai Chi Master, Waysun Liao; and for the next six years he studied full time with Liao and his two branch school instructors. It was during the period with his second Tai Chi instructor that he immersed himself in the Nei Kung - to develop the self and cultivate the Three Taoist Treasures of Jing, Chi, and Shen.

To cultivate his Chi, his inner energy, Master Liao put him on "the monk's diet": a regimen of grains, beans, vegetables, and seaweed. Living the Monk's life, he ate the diet, became celibate, and practiced Tai Chi from six to ten hours a day. To learn the classical Taoist path his textbooks became the Secret of the Golden Flower, Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga and Secrets of Chinese Meditation, and the tenth-century Ishimpo: Tao of Sex.

In those early days when Liao's was a center for imported Chinese talent, Clyman had the opportunity of being exposed to Chinese wrestling, Shuai Chiao, with the Grandmaster of the art, Ch'ang Tung Sheng, who died April 1987 at 78 years old. Acupuncture was exposed to Clyman in 1976 as he received his first lessons in natural healing. And of course, Master Liao opened the door to the inner workings, the temple secrets, of Temple Style Tai Chi and Chi Kung.

In the fall of 1979 Clyman attended a Chiropractic seminar as the assistant of Dr. Ineon Moon, his acupuncture teacher. The lecturer was Dr. Lamar Rosquist from Salt Lake City, and he was teaching the original John Hurley D.C. technique under the name of "The Spinal Touch Treatment," a non-force, gentle, soft tissue technique that works by releasing hypertonic muscles that misalign the spine and pelvis, he had found it the most helpful technique in his large Chiropractic clinic.

Gary immediately sensed that "The Spinal Touch Treatment" was after the same results as Tai Chi - perfect alignment of the spine through "hanging by a string at top of head" and "tucking the pelvis under." He saw that The Spinal Touch Treatment's goals of proper body mechanics and unimpeded neural flow were the same as those of An Mo massage with its manipulating of the sinews and stroking of the Chi tracts. He added it to his repertoire of natural healing arts and it soon became the center of a successful wholistic health practice.

Gary J. Clyman is an imposing, fiery personality. He often comes on too strong, with his ever-present handshake and booming smile, that new acquaintances are hard put to peg the man. And so they should be -- because Gary Clyman is one of those rare spirits totally enmeshed in the joy of living. If his sense of life could be labeled I'd call it Yang Chu hedonism, after the fourth-century Taoist, because he finds real joy in every action and endeavor, whether it's doing the Tai Chi form, meeting a new client, sparring with a parking lot attendant, or yes, even jostling a drunk driver from his car to perform another citizen's arrest. Optimism and vitality are his trademarks. The years of Tai Chi practice show in his military posture, erect and buoyant, yet still pliable and rooted in his every move. He uses and somehow remanufactures more energy in one day than most of us do in a week, and it just may be that his daily Tai Chi and Chi Kung practice has something to do with it.

In his interview he shares the secrets of Chi Kung meditation, the central practice of Taoist Yang Sheng without the mysticism, which is the foundation of his PERSONAL POWER TRAINING Workshops.

IFK: Just what is Chi Kung meditation?

GJC: Chi Kung is an ancient Chinese Taoist method for rejuvenating your internal energy systems - your Jing, Chi, and Shen. It's done using various postures and different kinds of breathing, but it's the internal exercises behind these outer movements that's important. So right here it's different than say Hatha yoga or Chinese calisthenics, which it can look like; plus, the postures aren't for stretching. Traditionally, it's part of Taoist yoga - the practices of the Taoist monk's. Today, it's the backbone of the internal martial arts of Tai Chi, Hsing I, and Pa Kua. (If it's taught that is!) Right now in China, a popularized version is getting attention as a kind of cancer therapy (see Chi Gong: Chinese Cancer Patients Exercise their way back to Health in East West Journal, March 1983. Ed.) There are similarities with Tantric yoga, but the language, exercises, and objectives are different. What makes Chi Kung unique is the conscious directing and use of the energy. So, it's really a meditation for self-development, for creating change in your life; and it can be done by anyone, I've had doctors, commodity traders, attorneys, teachers, housewives, and business people do this training, and everyone has experienced important, positive changes in their life.

IFK: Many articles are now appearing in martial arts and new age magazines on Chi Kung. With your busy practice, have you had a chance to read them? And if so, what are your conclusions?

GJC: All the articles I've read have been too superficial to do justice to this Nei Kung practice, so deep-rooted in Chinese culture. People have been led to believe that if they sit in the lotus posture and stretch one hand over their head and hold the other at tan tien while they abdominal breathe, that's Chi Kung. No way! Chi Kung means internal energy work, internal training! And it's tied into the oral secret teachings of the Taoists, and martial arts Masters. What we're talking about here is a sophisticated inner science involved in this art. People have spent their entire lives doing this and never moved off a cushion. I mean, if they're doing - why the superficial material? But there is always a purpose in putting something forth: they've prepared the public for what's to come.

IFK: Many of these articles describe "abnormal reactions" or "danger signals" occurring as a result of practicing Chi Kung. Have you seen these reactions in your students?

GJC: I don't know why these reactions are being called "danger signals!" If you're a body builder you're always at risk of hurting yourself somewhere along the line. If you're a surgeon, work in the operating room is one big risk! If you want to be good at anything in life you must develop the warrior spirit to handle the so-called "dangers"; which, by the way, I still haven't acknowledged - and it's been over eleven years now. You have to look at the American people and the prevalent attitude. If they don't get it in five minutes, it's not worth working for. Everyone has to understand that when we're talking about Chi Kung or internal Kung Fu training, this stuff takes awhile to learn. No, I don't mean they should get ripped off by thinking that it will take ten or twenty years. If a student has the right teacher, the right material, and is really motivated, then he can excel in a relatively short time: say, from six months to two years. He doesn't have to sit on the doorstep for five or ten years before the "venerable Master" decides to share a secret or two. So, you have to listen to where the articles are coming from. Does the person giving the warnings really know what he's talking about? Usually the warnings are coming from a place of fear, of trying to protect the system.

IFK: But isn't there a kernel of truth in the articles regarding headaches, ringing in the ears, dizziness, and emotional catharsis that might be triggered by this meditation?

GJC: Yes, but these aren't problems to worry about or to deter you from practicing Chi Kung. The more of these symptoms that a student has when practicing, the better, because as they figure out how to work through all these little bumps on the road, they're going to become masters, powerful, fearless! My advice is "do not worry about these reactions. No pain, no gain, no risk, no nothing!" Years ago in the heart of my Tai Chi training, I learned a valuable lesson applicable here. I'd often see my Tai Chi master whenever I had a problem with another student, a problem at work, or a problem at home. I'd go to him and ask: "What should I do about this?" His standard answer to reduce it's importance was: "When you're on a long road and you run over a little rock, do you stop to see what's happened to the rock, or do you just continue on, more concerned with the actual journey?" That's the approach I use with my students. When a student calls me up and has a problem and says: "What about this. I feel like ....." Whatever it is, I say: "O.K. Don't worry about it. If you just sit it out, you'll get through it" - because the human body is amazing. Look at what we've been eating and breathing all these years, so for a little while you'll be uncomfortable, big deal. Just take a break and come back with a different exercise and slow down." This kind of reassurance is usually all that's needed.

IFK: One last question about "danger signals." Quoting a popular author here: "Another common sensation is shaking or trembling. This is most pronounced in static postures, but may also be experienced in moving forms such as Tai Chi Ch'uan or Pa Kua Chang. Trembling may be in the joints, particularly in the wrists and knees, or even internally, in the abdomen. Shaking should be neither resisted nor encouraged. It is caused by a blockage in Chi flow."

GJC: Only 50% true. First of all, when practicing Tai Chi or sitting in a Chi Kung posture that you're not used to and you start shaking, that doesn't mean there's a "Chi blockage." It means your sinews, that is, your connective tissue, tendons and ligaments, and your muscles too, aren't used to working in these positions. From a Tai Chi point of view, if you look at the way most people move and the way they sit, they sort of jerk around from one position to the next. Look at our favorite Western sport, Baseball. If a baseball game lasts for three hours, are the players exercising for three hours or is it really for only maybe thirty minutes? However, when you're practicing Tai Chi or Chi Kung, it's a continuous thing. So, yes, you're legs and arms will tremble. In fact, I'd say that if somebody learned from me and they didn't tremble or shake, they weren't doing something right: either not working hard enough, not standing low enough, or they were just day dreaming. So, its no big deal, and it's certainly not a "danger." But! With the experienced student who's trained well and who has vibrations in the abdomen or up the spine during meditation, that's what he's been chasing after! He should be excited and grateful about it! It's just here that the student needs an understanding of the traditional Three Treasures so he can make sense out of what's happening, and what's in store for him too.

IFK: So you consider exposure to the "Three Treasures" theory important for success in Chi Kung? What about elusive concepts of Chi, Jing, and Shen?

GJC: Most books confuse this and make it impossible to understand. I'd rather give the student four or five sentences he could relate to and say: "I know what he's talking about." And even taking the risk that the concept he gets is incomplete, at least it's a beginning that he can build upon during his training. It's best to look at Chi, Jing, and Shen as levels. On the deepest somatic (body) level is Jing - sexual energy. When you're sexually attracted to someone, or when sexually aroused and you have an erection, its the energy of raw Jing surging up within you. To harness that energy and work it into a purified form, to cultivate it for purposes other than the sex act, say for fighting or personality development - that's the motivating fiber of Chi Kung meditation.

As the student uses this concrete idea to guide his practice, and as begins to understand my wholistic health orientation, with the emphasis on diet, nutritional supplementation, and proper body mechanics, it's not hard for him to expand this idea into the more abstract one of seeing Jing as the organism's generative and regenerative energy system, a power source that at conception activated cells, and then tissues, organs, the mind, the total person, and now - repairs them too. So, the vibrations then are cultivated Jing. Going back into my own Tai Chi training, I remember my first intense vibrations and having my Tai Chi brother touch the base of my neck to see if he could feel anything. He couldn't feel a thing, but to me I was on a roller coaster. I wasn't afraid though. Remember, there's two attitudes you can take: "Oh my god what's happening to me"! , (wimpy way) or "Oh boy, here we go! This is what I've been working for all these months" (warrior way). So, when my students have their first vibrations they're very excited; they think it's great.

IKF: So how does this contrast with the famous "Chi" or "ki" so often written about?


GJC: With Jing you can transmit its energy, or the manifestation of your internal development, to another person and they can feel it. So here, if I hold both of your hands and decide to give you a shock, the feeling you can get from my cultivation of raw Jing, and its release, the fah, is pure Jing. "Fah Jing" is the "mysterious" power of the great Tai Chi Masters. It's sometimes labeled "Fah Chin." Jing can be transmitted for healing purposes also, but when we're talking about Chi, the energy of Chi can manifest as a sensation I feel that has nothing to do with the vibrations I can transmit to you. Chi energy (internal energy) has a completely different vibratory frequency. Chi vibrations are in the next level and are shorter, smaller, and faster vibrations. Jing vibrations (internal power) are more guttural, more physical, and a slower. Chi of course, moves the entire universe, and is in all of us from our first embryonic breath as the source of organic change and movement, of breathing, eating, walking, fighting, thinking, and even aging too. But to sense it and use it with purpose takes technique, practice, and work. An analogy is helpful here to my students. An internal combustion engine must have an energy source, gasoline, and a method of igniting the energy, the ignition system, into the more usable form of energy, horsepower. For us, Chi is the energy source, Jing is the power, and Chi Kung is the method of transformation.

IKF: So how do you put this mechanism to work? How do you harness the Chi and make it work for you? What's your basic approach here?

GJC: The concept that cuts through the fog of ignorance and secrecy, the concept that allows the student to use Chi with purpose, to cultivate Jing, to develop and "burn" it into form, to become a dynamic self-powered individual is "The Condensing Principle." "The Condensing Process" is one of creating an inner vacuum with Chi, Jing, and Shen all at the same time. It's the process of packing the essence of things into every thought, intention, and action. Here's one basic condensing technique for developing Jing: whatever the posture, on the inhale focus on the body to expand, and at the same time focus on the inhaled Chi to contract, to condense, into the core of the body; then, on the exhale focus on the body to contract, and at the same time focus on the inhaled Chi to expand. On each inhale and exhale there is a simultaneous mental focus to expand and contract. This particular technique does two things: first, it sensitizes you to where you are in space as a physical, material body, and second, it introduces you to the first glimmer of Chi sensation, so much used in later training. This is just step one. As we go on and on, what we're doing is refining this same basic technique to the point where it goes from as gross as the body contracts, to where all the molecules in your body condense into one single atom.

IKF: I understand that you Basic Path Training and the Sitting Forms make use of many postures and coordinated movements. What's the idea behind the variety?

GJC: Basically they all accomplish the same thing - to help the mind direct the Chi and Jing through the auxiliary Chi tracts. It's like dancing: when you're studying it, you have to learn more than one step. A similar problem exists here as in Tai Chi. Many students base their choice of a system or the quality of their chosen system on how many movements there are in it. "Oh, my form has 108, his has only 68, but I know of one that has 138." This is an attitude conceived in ignorance.

What's important is, at he end of the training, what does the interpretation look like, not how many movements there are. In Tai Chi there's only thirteen forms anyway, no matter how you count them: ward off, roll back, press, push, elbow, shoulder, roll/pull, split, and the five style steps or the four directions and center. So, no matter how you concoct the name, the form is still only going to be a combination of "The Original Thirteen Forms."

In my Chi Kung training, I've used "The Condensing Principle" to condense all the material into something that makes sense, and that can save the student years of struggle. Four standing forms in Basic Path Training and "6 Forms and 7 Circulations" otherwise known as "The Sitting Forms with the Mind Training" is the result. More important than the Chi pathways used during the movements is the specific emotion that becomes associated with that movement for each student. They get angry with one movement, they laugh with another, get depressed or excited with another. The forms initiate a real, observable cleansing process, what I call "Retracing/Releasing." For example, if a student has a history of physical violence and was abused as a child, when practicing "The Sitting Forms with the Mind Training," they get in touch with the emotional trace of that experience held in the body tissues by the Jing Chi "burning" it out. Such a history manifests in bursts of crying with one form, anger with another. Its different for each person. So when the material base for the emotion is destroyed and the emotion is reexperienced, they release this pent-up energy. They set themselves free of the past and come to live more "in the moment." A new, clearer vision develops. "The Sitting Forms with the Mind Training," especially help "burn" the way through whatever trace is holding back their development, whether it's in muscle tissue, nerve tissue, Chi tracts, psychic blockages, whatever. This is the "secret" Taoist process called "transmutation of energies."

Chi Kung is such a great system of meditation, and coupled with Tai Chi, its the ultimate. I'd say it's the "Grand Ultimate." (Tai Chi Ch'uan is translated as Grand Ultimate Boxing. Ed.)

IKF: In most meditation the mind is calmed and it simply registers the flux of consciousness to naturally reach a state of pure awareness for eventual union with the absolute. In Chi Kung however, the mind seems to be very active and directed. GJC: It's active, but it's also concentrated, that is, focused. The mind is active only in the sense of "guiding the Chi," not thinking. This is called "Hsing Chi" and it means "wherever the mind goes, the Chi follows." Most meditation restricts awareness to mantra, a mandala, a chant, or the breathing. Most articles treat Chi Kung as a form of visualization - wrong! This is not. My concept of visualization is something created in imagination, something not existing, or not yet existing, like in the method of Creative Visualization. In Chi Kung you're not visualizing Chi condensing, circulating, or dispersing through the use of images, you are actually doing it, physically.

The proof is that you can feel the forewarned effects, and later, the personal power is there and you feel it. When using Tai Chi in a martial application, someone else feels it. This is not like other meditation systems in which consciousness is worked at the expense of the body. In the Taoist view, there is an innate wholistic union of Chi, Jing, and Shen. Whenever one is being exercised, the other two are right there getting worked also. The Taoists wanted us to develop all our innate capacities so we could experience the joys of living here on earth for as long as possible. In Chi Kung, the person develops as a total unit, more fit for living.

IKF: You've talked about Jing and Chi, the basic concept of condensing, and a few other techniques, where does Shen, the third "Treasure," fit in?

GJC: Well, how do you take all this, the whole system of Chi Kung, and use it in your daily life? That's what Shen is about. When you develop the personal power of Jing you have to express this excess of vitality in some way. Since you've released latent Jing energy stored in armored muscles, tendons, and ligaments and added it to your pool of retained sexual energy, you're no longer a composite of everything that's happened to you in the past. You become "in the moment." You're not distracted by what happened last week, or six months ago. Now you can focus all the energy that you are on something new, on new goals, on a new direction for yourself. What I see in my classes is my students and clients developing the ability to recognize events for what they are. They make decisions more quickly and confidently. Their lives become simpler, less cluttered with emotional baggage, and the fear of doing new things disappears.

The cultivated Jing manifests in their physical presence and awareness, the Chi, in their ability to think more clearly, to make up their minds and not be distracted. The Shen is their ability to "follow through" on what they've decided upon. "Shen is the way you can manipulate your universe to be what you want it to be. Its your outlook on life - the way you work in the world." That's my understanding of the "Three Treasures." It grew out of my Kung Fu training, not out of the philosophy books.

IKF: Give me an idea of the energy paths your students use in your PERSONAL POWER TRAININGx.

GJC: "Basic Path Training" makes use of the basic forms from my Temple Style Tai Chi System. This is a non-moving standing meditation where the Condensing Principle is integrated into Upward and Downward, Inward and Outward, Holding Tai Chi Ball, and Raised Hands and Stance. In The Sitting Forms with the Mind Training, they learn the 'well points' for drawing in and releasing Chi, how to circulate along the Chi pathways, The Micro Cosmic Orbit, and the seven subtle tao yin forms. Breath training exposes them to the different breathing methods, and sphincter training helps the student comprehend how to pump Jing, and it prepares them for the advanced Taoist Sexual Technique. And Tai Chi Chi Kung is another advanced course where all basic concepts and techniques come together using moving Tai Chi forms. Many students then decide to take my Temple Style Tai Chi and over a longer period learn the principles of proper body mechanics, how to transfer Jing, and of course my favorite, self-defense.

IKF: Isn't Chi Kung usually taught as part of Tai Chi training? At least isn't that the martial arts tradition?

GJC: Yes. But in my Tai Chi classes I was rarely able to teach this to any of my Tai Chi students - they had to be around for two or three years first and complete the Tai Chi System. The chances of a student surviving my Tai Chi system was about two in a thousand. The training I give is like being in a monastery. It's as if you signed yourself up for five or six years in Taiwan or China and said: "don't let me out until my time is up." This is the intensity of how I teach in Chicago. So to share these secret oral teachings, and to help people with physical or emotional problems take an active role in their own well-being, I've set up the training so I can take someone with no background in internal kung Fu, and I teach them the basic concepts of Chi Kung, the basic techniques, and the practical application for modern, high-intensity living. When they work hard, they receive the personal power benefits of Chi Kung, as if they had studied Tai Chi for ten years. Traditionally, Chi Kung was taught only as an extension of Tai Chi training, only after however long the teacher wants to keep the student on the hook. If the teacher even knows Chi Kung, that is. I'm not doing that. This material is too valuable to keep a secret any longer.

IKF: The basic premise of your work then is that Chi Kung and Tai Chi offer a comprehensive program for optimal health?

GJC: Right! But it even goes beyond that and introduces the element of longevity into the students life. All we've discussed thus far is part of the Taoism Nei Tan program of internal transformation, what I call PERSONAL POWER TRAINING.

Natural diet is important too. It's from our food and air that we receive the Jing and Chi components to manufacture new raw Jing energy for later cultivation in Chi Kung. The more pure and balanced the diet, the better the Jing production. That means basically a macrobiotic diet of grains, beans, vegetables, and fruits. Scientific research is showing that a low-fat, high complex carbohydrate diet like this can zap degenerative diseases and extend the life-span. Even here the Taoists had another trick up their sleeves. Their Wai Tan program of external elixirs was an attempt to create anti-aging medicines so they could experience life with the intensity of the Hsien Immortal - "to fly on the clouds," as Chuang Tzu said. This idea, that certain chemicals could extend our life-span, lives today in gerontology research labs. Scientists like Leonard Hayflick and Roy Walford have written that using vitamin and mineral supplements to neutralize cellular oxidants may be the best method to retard aging and extend the life-span to 120 years. Not quite enough time to become a Hsien Immortal, but good enough for we modern city folk!

IKF: So, as a wholistic health practitioner you've found that changing to a natural diet is pretty important for creating more energy and power in a person's life?

GJC: Of course, but since our farm soils are so over used and crops are force-fed with growth-stimulating fertilizers, its not enough to rely on just the nutrients in foods to supply the needs of a modern people. What's needed is a reliable quick method to check our low energy states and the deficient nutrients that may be responsible. Only then can a wise choice be made in choosing "the right supplements," if they are needed. And its just here again that the Taoists and acupuncturists were close on the track of how to monitor out own nutrition. The acupuncture tracts and their Chi circulation can now be tested using Applied Kinesiology, or muscle response testing, to discover low levels of molecular vibration and the corresponding nutrient deficits. We're all heirs to this tradition and its modern application. If the ancient Taoists are up there" flying on the clouds." I'm sure their earthly pleasure of pride is in full bloom. May they live forever!

To order videos: FOUNDATION FUNDAMENTALS - Temple Style Tai Chi Ch'uan and/or TIDAL WAVE CHI KUNG by credit card, use the order form on my home page or call my 24 Hour Voice Mail Energy Hot Line at (800) 7 TAI-CHI = (800) 782-4244 and I will call you back to confirm your order information.

c 1987 Gary J. Clyman